[Clayart] CLAY LINED BASKETS

vpitelka at dtccom.net vpitelka at dtccom.net
Sat Jul 31 21:07:44 UTC 2021


In terms of ancient and tribal pottery, round bottoms are the only shape that make sense for cooking vessels used over a campfire.  Of all shapes on the surface of pottery forms, the one most likely to experience thermal shock is a flat bottom, especially on a cooking vessel.  Flat surfaces have no ability to expand and contract unevenly, while round surfaces do.  That's the whole reason why virtually all ancient and tribal clay cooking vessels have round bottoms.  As you can see in images of recent African tribal cultures cooking over a fire, the pot was often set on three stones, or on the ends of three green logs extending into the fire.  Tripod vessels were a way to make a pot stand up on its own and still retain the round shape for thermal shock resistance.
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Potter, Writer, Teacher
Chapel Hill, NC
vpitelka at dtccom.net
www.vincepitelka.com 
https://chathamartistsguild.org/ 

-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of paul gerhold
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2021 3:39 PM
To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
Subject: Re: [Clayart] CLAY LINED BASKETS

The question that arises in my mind is if the earliest clay vessels were not made in baskets why are the bottoms so often round?  Round bottoms make very little practical sense for cooking vessels. See any in your collection of pots and pans?

Paul

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 31, 2021, at 3:01 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I agree Vince about the clay-lined basket theory to be dubious, but 
> I'm also not sure that we can proclaim that fired pottery was 
> discovered before basket-weaving.
> 
> You're certainly right in that the evidence for baskets only dates to 
> about
> 8000 B.C., while we have found fired figurines that date to 25,000 B.C.
> However, that in itself does not mean that basket-weaving only dates 
> to
> 8,000 B.C. It's likely to be older. We just don't know how much older 
> because grasses and reeds are so biodegradable. In addition, the 
> earliest evidence for baskets is in the "pre-pottery" Middle East. One 
> of the confusing things here is that while the earliest ceramic pots 
> have been found in China and East Asia, there isn't much evidence for 
> pottery elsewhere until much later. And we need to differentiate 
> between ceramic figures and ceramic vessels, "pots", since the former 
> are about 5-10,000 older than the latter. Pots date from 15,000 years 
> ago (ish ... it keeps getting pushed back and they keep arguing as to 
> whether the small fragments found are "pots"), while fired ceramic 
> figures have been found in Eastern Europe/Russia that date to about 25,000+ years ago.
> 
> On the other hand, direct observation of primitive cultures, as well 
> as archaeological evidence, mostly argues that humans used tanned 
> hides as cooking pots and bags and other items where a "clay-lined 
> basket" sounds likely.
> 
>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021 at 10:35, <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>> 
>> The clay-lined baskets theory is another of the odd and unlikely 
>> theories that has somehow gained popularity among people who really 
>> didn't stop to think about it.  Humans discovered the fired hearths 
>> and the possibilities of fired clay LONG before they were making 
>> baskets.  So the clay-lined baskets theory doesn't "hold water."  
>> (Ha-ha)
>> - Vince
>> 
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>> Chapel Hill, NC
>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>> www.vincepitelka.com
>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of 
>> Mike Gordon
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 4:50 PM
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum 
>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: [Clayart] CLAY LINED BASKETS
>> 
>> I had heard a similar story that Terry described. Mike Gordon
>> 
>> 
>> 
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