[Clayart] david the self driving car

paul gerhold gerholdclay at gmail.com
Wed Oct 20 11:15:03 UTC 2021

None of those articles has any actual data to support your contention that generations raised when physical child discipline was more common are any more violence prone than generations where physical discipline was less normalized.  

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:22 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul - there is very little data available on the US population as a while,
> but there is certainly evidence that
> 1) in communities where violence is normalized, this begets violence and
> that there is a correlation between incarcerated, violent men and
> hitting/violence at home.
> Obviously this data tends to be weak on middle class white men.
> 2) there is a lot data on spousal abuse and degree of corporal punishment
> at home. This data does also includes white middle class men. Obviously
> there are plenty of white middle class men who were subject to corporal
> punishment (and thete may be threshold levels) and never hit their wives but
> there is statstical significance that it increases risk.
> BTW try googling some before you nastily imply I don't know what I'm
> talking about. Here's a well written lay article with plenty of citations.
> It took me about 2 seconds to find plenty of evidence.
> https://www.lawnow.org/corporal-punishment-and-domestic-violence/
> and some abstracts from pubmed
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29217100/
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7832020/
>> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021, 17:42 paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert,
>> I assume you actually have the statistics that prove those of us raised in
>> the 50's and 60's are more prone to physical violence than people in their
>> 20s and 30's. Or will actual data prove exactly the opposite?
>> Be careful of condemning  the older generations without evidence since
>> many of us are from generations that did approve of discipline.
>> Paul
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> A hundred years ago (even thirty years ago in some communities), giving
>>> children "the belt" was commonplace. And it raised a generation of
>> children
>>> who think that hitting is OK. Older is not always better. And when trying
>>> things that are new, more mistakes will be made. (As an aside if you're
>>> trying to throw or make an entirely new form (it may be a mug but it's
>>> totally different), how many times do you have to cut it off and start
>>> again before it looks "right"?)
>>> Likewise, they used to train horses (and other animals) by punishment.
>>> There is absolutely no doubt that positive reinforcement works far far
>>> better. It just takes a lot longer and more patience, and people are
>> lazy.
>>> Remember, humans are animals. We may be on the far end of the bell curve
>> in
>>> terms of brainpower, but cheetahs are on the far end for fast twitch
>>> muscles,  make no mistake we are animals and we should take heed of
>> animal
>>> trainers.
>>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:04, Dorothy Parshall <dorothyp at whidbey.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> My sons were born in 59 and 63. I read Spock but remember little of what
>>>> he was on about. I went by the wisdom of my father and raised my sons
>> as I
>>>> had been raised. And their children have been mostly raised the same
>> way —
>>>> and 2 great grands pretty much the same. I suppose books have been, and
>> are
>>>> still, written about where parenting went off the track - probably  a
>> few
>>>> thousand years ago, or more. We just have an increasingly huge
>> population
>>>> of people whose forbears never learned how… to do a lot of things! The
>>>> world changes daily; Stephen Pinker in The Better Angels of our Nature,
>>>> complete with an incredible number of footnotes, asserts that humans
>> have,
>>>> in general, improved over the centuries. Hard to believe, but we need to
>>>> focus more on those who are doing a good job and on giving more
>> supports to
>>>> those who have failed to choose the better parents.   Not every wannabe
>>>> potter is blessed with a great teacher either!
>>>> Dorothy Parshall
>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2021, at 8:44 AM, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Everything parental wise missing from current generation. No
>> boundaries.
>>>> When a PO in Philly We got a call (this was in the 60’s) to a home.
>> Woman
>>>> answered door. Asked what was issue. Said her son would not listen.
>> Took us
>>>> to a bedroom, there in the bed was an early teen boy. Told mom we are
>> not
>>>> in the parenting business. She replied he just will not listen. Said
>>>> husband did not believe in discipline (Dr. Spock teaching). I realized
>> then
>>>> that the world had changed, not for the better.
>>>>> Rob Hackert
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