[Clayart] david the self driving car

Robert Harris robertgharris at gmail.com
Wed Oct 20 23:05:54 UTC 2021


Incidentally ALL mammals, not just primates, have a prefrontal cortex. It
is certainly much larger in humans. It has a role in executive function and
things such as imagining objects and concepts that aren't there, but in
corvids and parrots its functions (at the very least) are taken over by
other parts of the brain. There is no doubt that both corvids and parrot
species can pass a range of "human cognition" tests. Indeed some species
can pass tests that some great apes fail, while failing others that great
apes pass with ease.

Part of the problem is that science in the 20th century had a very
anthropocentric bias with regard to "intelligence" and neuroanatomy.
Non-mammalian brains are very different and actual behaviours, rather than
neuro-anatomy needs to be analysed.
Here is an interesting article on intelligence in Corvids.

https://hraf.yale.edu/the-intelligent-crow-exploring-human-animal-relationships-cross-culturally/

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 11:30, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> If you are referring to animalistic behavior on the part of humans that is
> fine. But, you have to agree that is a free will choice, also growth
> surroundings influence.  Animals have no choice, it is called instinct.
> This is why I ask are you categorizing humans as animals acting on
> instinct,  or humans who have choice?
> Rob Hackert
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:22 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mammals are a subset of the group animals.
> >
> >> On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 at 17:41, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I am sorry, you meant mammals instead of animals yes/no.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A hundred years ago (even thirty years ago in some communities),
> giving
> >>> children "the belt" was commonplace. And it raised a generation of
> >> children
> >>> who think that hitting is OK. Older is not always better. And when
> trying
> >>> things that are new, more mistakes will be made. (As an aside if you're
> >>> trying to throw or make an entirely new form (it may be a mug but it's
> >>> totally different), how many times do you have to cut it off and start
> >>> again before it looks "right"?)
> >>>
> >>> Likewise, they used to train horses (and other animals) by punishment.
> >>> There is absolutely no doubt that positive reinforcement works far far
> >>> better. It just takes a lot longer and more patience, and people are
> >> lazy.
> >>>
> >>> Remember, humans are animals. We may be on the far end of the bell
> curve
> >> in
> >>> terms of brainpower, but cheetahs are on the far end for fast twitch
> >>> muscles,  make no mistake we are animals and we should take heed of
> >> animal
> >>> trainers.
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:04, Dorothy Parshall <dorothyp at whidbey.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My sons were born in 59 and 63. I read Spock but remember little of
> what
> >>>> he was on about. I went by the wisdom of my father and raised my sons
> >> as I
> >>>> had been raised. And their children have been mostly raised the same
> >> way —
> >>>> and 2 great grands pretty much the same. I suppose books have been,
> and
> >> are
> >>>> still, written about where parenting went off the track - probably  a
> >> few
> >>>> thousand years ago, or more. We just have an increasingly huge
> >> population
> >>>> of people whose forbears never learned how… to do a lot of things! The
> >>>> world changes daily; Stephen Pinker in The Better Angels of our
> Nature,
> >>>> complete with an incredible number of footnotes, asserts that humans
> >> have,
> >>>> in general, improved over the centuries. Hard to believe, but we need
> to
> >>>> focus more on those who are doing a good job and on giving more
> >> supports to
> >>>> those who have failed to choose the better parents.   Not every
> wannabe
> >>>> potter is blessed with a great teacher either!
> >>>>
> >>>> Dorothy Parshall
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 18, 2021, at 8:44 AM, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Everything parental wise missing from current generation. No
> >> boundaries.
> >>>> When a PO in Philly We got a call (this was in the 60’s) to a home.
> >> Woman
> >>>> answered door. Asked what was issue. Said her son would not listen.
> >> Took us
> >>>> to a bedroom, there in the bed was an early teen boy. Told mom we are
> >> not
> >>>> in the parenting business. She replied he just will not listen. Said
> >>>> husband did not believe in discipline (Dr. Spock teaching). I realized
> >> then
> >>>> that the world had changed, not for the better.
> >>>>> Rob Hackert
> >>>>
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