[Clayart] david the self driving car

Robert Harris robertgharris at gmail.com
Wed Oct 20 23:13:18 UTC 2021


Sorry posted the wrong link (although it starts out with some information).
Here is another with more citations.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20191211-crows-could-be-the-smartest-animal-other-than-primates

On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 17:05, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:

> Incidentally ALL mammals, not just primates, have a prefrontal cortex. It
> is certainly much larger in humans. It has a role in executive function and
> things such as imagining objects and concepts that aren't there, but in
> corvids and parrots its functions (at the very least) are taken over by
> other parts of the brain. There is no doubt that both corvids and parrot
> species can pass a range of "human cognition" tests. Indeed some species
> can pass tests that some great apes fail, while failing others that great
> apes pass with ease.
>
> Part of the problem is that science in the 20th century had a very
> anthropocentric bias with regard to "intelligence" and neuroanatomy.
> Non-mammalian brains are very different and actual behaviours, rather than
> neuro-anatomy needs to be analysed.
> Here is an interesting article on intelligence in Corvids.
>
>
> https://hraf.yale.edu/the-intelligent-crow-exploring-human-animal-relationships-cross-culturally/
>
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 at 11:30, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you are referring to animalistic behavior on the part of humans that
>> is fine. But, you have to agree that is a free will choice, also growth
>> surroundings influence.  Animals have no choice, it is called instinct.
>> This is why I ask are you categorizing humans as animals acting on
>> instinct,  or humans who have choice?
>> Rob Hackert
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On Oct 19, 2021, at 10:22 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Mammals are a subset of the group animals.
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 19 Oct 2021 at 17:41, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I am sorry, you meant mammals instead of animals yes/no.
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >>> On Oct 19, 2021, at 4:12 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> A hundred years ago (even thirty years ago in some communities),
>> giving
>> >>> children "the belt" was commonplace. And it raised a generation of
>> >> children
>> >>> who think that hitting is OK. Older is not always better. And when
>> trying
>> >>> things that are new, more mistakes will be made. (As an aside if
>> you're
>> >>> trying to throw or make an entirely new form (it may be a mug but it's
>> >>> totally different), how many times do you have to cut it off and start
>> >>> again before it looks "right"?)
>> >>>
>> >>> Likewise, they used to train horses (and other animals) by punishment.
>> >>> There is absolutely no doubt that positive reinforcement works far far
>> >>> better. It just takes a lot longer and more patience, and people are
>> >> lazy.
>> >>>
>> >>> Remember, humans are animals. We may be on the far end of the bell
>> curve
>> >> in
>> >>> terms of brainpower, but cheetahs are on the far end for fast twitch
>> >>> muscles,  make no mistake we are animals and we should take heed of
>> >> animal
>> >>> trainers.
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 12:04, Dorothy Parshall <dorothyp at whidbey.com
>> >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> My sons were born in 59 and 63. I read Spock but remember little of
>> what
>> >>>> he was on about. I went by the wisdom of my father and raised my sons
>> >> as I
>> >>>> had been raised. And their children have been mostly raised the same
>> >> way —
>> >>>> and 2 great grands pretty much the same. I suppose books have been,
>> and
>> >> are
>> >>>> still, written about where parenting went off the track - probably  a
>> >> few
>> >>>> thousand years ago, or more. We just have an increasingly huge
>> >> population
>> >>>> of people whose forbears never learned how… to do a lot of things!
>> The
>> >>>> world changes daily; Stephen Pinker in The Better Angels of our
>> Nature,
>> >>>> complete with an incredible number of footnotes, asserts that humans
>> >> have,
>> >>>> in general, improved over the centuries. Hard to believe, but we
>> need to
>> >>>> focus more on those who are doing a good job and on giving more
>> >> supports to
>> >>>> those who have failed to choose the better parents.   Not every
>> wannabe
>> >>>> potter is blessed with a great teacher either!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dorothy Parshall
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> On Oct 18, 2021, at 8:44 AM, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Everything parental wise missing from current generation. No
>> >> boundaries.
>> >>>> When a PO in Philly We got a call (this was in the 60’s) to a home.
>> >> Woman
>> >>>> answered door. Asked what was issue. Said her son would not listen.
>> >> Took us
>> >>>> to a bedroom, there in the bed was an early teen boy. Told mom we are
>> >> not
>> >>>> in the parenting business. She replied he just will not listen. Said
>> >>>> husband did not believe in discipline (Dr. Spock teaching). I
>> realized
>> >> then
>> >>>> that the world had changed, not for the better.
>> >>>>> Rob Hackert
>> >>>>
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