[Clayart] Handmade

Sun Aug 7 19:39:03 UTC 2022

Robert,
I buy handmade art from artists I know and there is certainly a connection. Some have now passed and I can still look at the work with feelings and remembrances of an artist and friend. I feel sorry for you that you have somehow avoided that connection.

Paul 

Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 7, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If you want to look at interesting possibilities of 3D printing, you might
> be interested in
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/hammerlyceramics/
> 
> He's using 3D printing (and 4 axis milling) to create surface topology that
> would be nearly impossible to do by hand.
> 
> And https://www.instagram.com/turn.studio/ uses CAD to create some very
> cool stencils on both thrown and molded work. (Including some zeotrope
> images).
> 
> 
> The fundamental problem is that people (including potters) are ascribing a
> quality and emotive, rather than just descriptive, meaning to the word
> handmade. Which is just ridiculous. I would far prefer to buy and use some
> really well designed and manufactured ceramics than A LOT of the junk I've
> seen at "art" fairs.
> 
> Of course, I also occasionally take the hyperbolic position that the idea
> that we can somehow find more of a connection with an artist who makes
> something by hand than with a designer whose stuff is machine-made is
> honestly just self-delusion. Our brains certainly may struggle with
> perfection.,(Pixar ran into this problem a few years ago. They can actually
> make characters look perfectly human, but there was something "off" about
> them that gave everyone the creeps, so they deliberately make their
> characters more cartoon-y). But in ceramics, micro-flaws and imperfections
> can be imitated by machines too (especially by using reactive glazes). And
> arguably a good designer can eliminate that feeling of "too perfect",
> anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every tool we use is just a means to an end (or should be).
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2022 at 08:20, paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Actually I do give a damn and that post was a response to John Rogers. I
>> think integrity and honesty in  craft is incredibly important if skills and
>> respect for craftsmanship are to be maintained. Maybe time to bring back
>> guilds.
>> 
>> Back in the days when my wife and I did shows it was not uncommon to have
>> a potter trying by careful misdirection to pass off molded ware as wheel
>> thrown with pieces complete with throwing ridges    and even thumbprints. I
>> have nothing against that type of work but I do not appreciate deliberate
>> attempts at pretending the creative process was other than what it actually
>> was.
>> 
>> And next we will have 3D printed ceramics which offers amazing creative
>> possibilities and which I suspect will make molded ware obsolete.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2022, at 7:41 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Paul,
>>> you may be the proverbial kid outside the candy store looking in and
>> yelling that "you don't give a damn."
>>> 
>>> But yes, Paul, "you do give a damn" or you wouldn't bother to say that
>> 'you don't give a damn.'
>>> 
>>> Taking liberty with the immortal words of the Bard: "perhaps the
>> gentleman doth protest too much"
>>> 
>>> Oh Paul, Smile! you know you owe me one!
>>> 
>>> Love,
>>> David
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>> paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 12:28 PM
>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>>> 
>>> Lots of words to say " I don't give a damn"
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On Aug 6, 2022, at 7:46 AM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Very interesting conversation here. But to quote Rhett Butler in Gone
>> With
>>>> The Wind, I don't give a damn. Took me a  long while to arrive at this.
>>>> Fretted  about it a lot, finally arrived at the conclusion "I created
>> it,
>>>> whatever it took, and if you, the customer, like it, here's my story
>> about
>>>> its creation. Now buy it, take it home and enjoy it. Nuff said. I have
>> quit
>>>> fretting myself over the debates that seem to go on forever. I have too
>>>> many pots and other things to create instead of  spending my energy
>>>> fretting over this. Show your customer your work, whatever it is. Talk
>> to
>>>> them about it. Tell them about your clay journey. Get inside their head
>> a
>>>> bit. Then they will be more likely to buy, and they will feel like they
>>>> have taken a piece of the artist home with them. Gives them something to
>>>> talk about with their friends, neighbors and relatives.
>>>> 
>>>> If anyone cares to look, Google for Southern Grace Gallery and check out
>>>> my "creations!'
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 8:32 PM <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Lis -
>>>>> You didn't waste anyone's time, because this is a very important
>> subject
>>>>> that NEEDS to be brought up again and again.  This group is constantly
>>>>> evolving and as Mel said, we have added a lot of new members.  It is
>>>>> important for them to be involved in these discussions or to at least
>> read
>>>>> them.  If I were you, I would print some simple information about
>>>>> "handmade" that tactfully advises buyers to seek work that is truly
>>>>> handmade in order to support the continuity of handmade fine craft.
>>>>> - Vince
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>>>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>
>>>>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>> Lis
>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 2:55 PM
>>>>> To: kathi at lesueurclaywork.com; lis at pine-ridge.ca; Clayart
>> international
>>>>> pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>>>>> 
>>>>> The reason I brought it up, not knowing that it had been answered about
>>>>> 2793 times already according to Mel, is that I find myself in a
>> situation
>>>>> where such a potter was juried in, and is now charging very high
>> prices for
>>>>> what I consider inferior work. Some customers think it must be better
>> than
>>>>> mine, after all, it's more expensive. Sort of a double whammy for me!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Anyway, I guess there is no answer and I'm sorry to waste everyone's
>> time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Lis
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2022-08-05 3:23 p.m., kathi at lesueurclaywork.com wrote:
>>>>>> This is especially a problem at juried art fairs. Even if there is a
>>>>> potter on the jury they often have no idea of what is available to
>> potters
>>>>> today. I was once on a jury where the other jurors were impressed with
>> the
>>>>> artist’s decorating on pieces. I pointed out that the meticulous brush
>> work
>>>>> they were seeing was actually commercially made decals that the potter
>> just
>>>>> fired on the pots. What looks like unique glazing is just following
>>>>> instructions from the glaze manufacturer on which jarred glazes to
>> combine
>>>>> for special looks. I once asked on another pottery forum why anyone
>> would
>>>>> pay $290 for a five gallon bucket of shiny blue “dipping glaze” when
>> that
>>>>> same bucket could be made with less than $20 in materials. Many, many
>>>>> potters today evidently have so much spare money that they have no
>> interest
>>>>> in learning how to make glazes and will gladly pay $16 for an 8 ounce
>> jar
>>>>> of glaze.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Kathi LeSueur
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Lis <lis.allison at primus.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well, I certainly agree with what you wrote, David. What gets me
>> these
>>>>> days is all the potters switching to underglaze transfers and calling
>> their
>>>>> work hand made. I had someone come to my booth at a sale and ask me to
>> make
>>>>> her a large number of a certain item, and to decorate them using the
>>>>> underglaze transfer she had purchased. Needless to say, I refused. My
>> work
>>>>> is made by hand (your definition) and hand painted. If I wanted to
>>>>> machine-make pottery, I might as well go work in an office instead. At
>>>>> least then I'd make real money.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> www.pine-ridge.ca<http://www.pine-ridge.ca>
>>>>> Garden Blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>> http://www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
>>>>> Pottery Blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>> http://www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>>> URL: <
>> https://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20220805/e28cb6a1/attachment.htm
>>> 
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>> https://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20220807/52442742/attachment.htm
>>> 
>> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20220807/f36807a7/attachment.htm>