[Clayart] Handmade

Robert Harris robertgharris at gmail.com
Mon Aug 8 00:59:39 UTC 2022


Also. what don't you understand about the word hyperbole?

On Sun, Aug 7, 2022, 18:25 Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't count even a 30 minute conversation at an art fair as a
> connection.. You must lack lots of real meaningful friendships of you count
> that as a connection.
>
> I have pots made by people I've known for years. Those are different. Not
> many people who buy pots have that length of friendship with potters.
>
> But I'm talking about other people whove mentioned have a connection with
> a potter simply because of a fingerprint. That's self delusion brought on
> by a lack of other meaning.
>
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2022, 13:40 paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>> I buy handmade art from artists I know and there is certainly a
>> connection. Some have now passed and I can still look at the work with
>> feelings and remembrances of an artist and friend. I feel sorry for you
>> that you have somehow avoided that connection.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Aug 7, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > If you want to look at interesting possibilities of 3D printing, you
>> might
>> > be interested in
>> >
>> > https://www.instagram.com/hammerlyceramics/
>> >
>> > He's using 3D printing (and 4 axis milling) to create surface topology
>> that
>> > would be nearly impossible to do by hand.
>> >
>> > And https://www.instagram.com/turn.studio/ uses CAD to create some very
>> > cool stencils on both thrown and molded work. (Including some zeotrope
>> > images).
>> >
>> >
>> > The fundamental problem is that people (including potters) are
>> ascribing a
>> > quality and emotive, rather than just descriptive, meaning to the word
>> > handmade. Which is just ridiculous. I would far prefer to buy and use
>> some
>> > really well designed and manufactured ceramics than A LOT of the junk
>> I've
>> > seen at "art" fairs.
>> >
>> > Of course, I also occasionally take the hyperbolic position that the
>> idea
>> > that we can somehow find more of a connection with an artist who makes
>> > something by hand than with a designer whose stuff is machine-made is
>> > honestly just self-delusion. Our brains certainly may struggle with
>> > perfection.,(Pixar ran into this problem a few years ago. They can
>> actually
>> > make characters look perfectly human, but there was something "off"
>> about
>> > them that gave everyone the creeps, so they deliberately make their
>> > characters more cartoon-y). But in ceramics, micro-flaws and
>> imperfections
>> > can be imitated by machines too (especially by using reactive glazes).
>> And
>> > arguably a good designer can eliminate that feeling of "too perfect",
>> > anyway.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Every tool we use is just a means to an end (or should be).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Sun, 7 Aug 2022 at 08:20, paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Actually I do give a damn and that post was a response to John Rogers.
>> I
>> >> think integrity and honesty in  craft is incredibly important if
>> skills and
>> >> respect for craftsmanship are to be maintained. Maybe time to bring
>> back
>> >> guilds.
>> >>
>> >> Back in the days when my wife and I did shows it was not uncommon to
>> have
>> >> a potter trying by careful misdirection to pass off molded ware as
>> wheel
>> >> thrown with pieces complete with throwing ridges    and even
>> thumbprints. I
>> >> have nothing against that type of work but I do not appreciate
>> deliberate
>> >> attempts at pretending the creative process was other than what it
>> actually
>> >> was.
>> >>
>> >> And next we will have 3D printed ceramics which offers amazing creative
>> >> possibilities and which I suspect will make molded ware obsolete.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPad
>> >>
>> >>>> On Aug 7, 2022, at 7:41 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Paul,
>> >>> you may be the proverbial kid outside the candy store looking in and
>> >> yelling that "you don't give a damn."
>> >>>
>> >>> But yes, Paul, "you do give a damn" or you wouldn't bother to say that
>> >> 'you don't give a damn.'
>> >>>
>> >>> Taking liberty with the immortal words of the Bard: "perhaps the
>> >> gentleman doth protest too much"
>> >>>
>> >>> Oh Paul, Smile! you know you owe me one!
>> >>>
>> >>> Love,
>> >>> David
>> >>> ________________________________
>> >>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>> >> paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com>
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 12:28 PM
>> >>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>> >> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>> >>>
>> >>> Lots of words to say " I don't give a damn"
>> >>>
>> >>> Paul
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Aug 6, 2022, at 7:46 AM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Very interesting conversation here. But to quote Rhett Butler in
>> Gone
>> >> With
>> >>>> The Wind, I don't give a damn. Took me a  long while to arrive at
>> this.
>> >>>> Fretted  about it a lot, finally arrived at the conclusion "I created
>> >> it,
>> >>>> whatever it took, and if you, the customer, like it, here's my story
>> >> about
>> >>>> its creation. Now buy it, take it home and enjoy it. Nuff said. I
>> have
>> >> quit
>> >>>> fretting myself over the debates that seem to go on forever. I have
>> too
>> >>>> many pots and other things to create instead of  spending my energy
>> >>>> fretting over this. Show your customer your work, whatever it is.
>> Talk
>> >> to
>> >>>> them about it. Tell them about your clay journey. Get inside their
>> head
>> >> a
>> >>>> bit. Then they will be more likely to buy, and they will feel like
>> they
>> >>>> have taken a piece of the artist home with them. Gives them
>> something to
>> >>>> talk about with their friends, neighbors and relatives.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> If anyone cares to look, Google for Southern Grace Gallery and check
>> out
>> >>>> my "creations!'
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 8:32 PM <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Lis -
>> >>>>> You didn't waste anyone's time, because this is a very important
>> >> subject
>> >>>>> that NEEDS to be brought up again and again.  This group is
>> constantly
>> >>>>> evolving and as Mel said, we have added a lot of new members.  It is
>> >>>>> important for them to be involved in these discussions or to at
>> least
>> >> read
>> >>>>> them.  If I were you, I would print some simple information about
>> >>>>> "handmade" that tactfully advises buyers to seek work that is truly
>> >>>>> handmade in order to support the continuity of handmade fine craft.
>> >>>>> - Vince
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Vince Pitelka
>> >>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>> >>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>> >>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>> >>>>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>
>> >>>>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>> >> Lis
>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 2:55 PM
>> >>>>> To: kathi at lesueurclaywork.com; lis at pine-ridge.ca; Clayart
>> >> international
>> >>>>> pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The reason I brought it up, not knowing that it had been answered
>> about
>> >>>>> 2793 times already according to Mel, is that I find myself in a
>> >> situation
>> >>>>> where such a potter was juried in, and is now charging very high
>> >> prices for
>> >>>>> what I consider inferior work. Some customers think it must be
>> better
>> >> than
>> >>>>> mine, after all, it's more expensive. Sort of a double whammy for
>> me!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Anyway, I guess there is no answer and I'm sorry to waste everyone's
>> >> time.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Lis
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On 2022-08-05 3:23 p.m., kathi at lesueurclaywork.com wrote:
>> >>>>>> This is especially a problem at juried art fairs. Even if there is
>> a
>> >>>>> potter on the jury they often have no idea of what is available to
>> >> potters
>> >>>>> today. I was once on a jury where the other jurors were impressed
>> with
>> >> the
>> >>>>> artist’s decorating on pieces. I pointed out that the meticulous
>> brush
>> >> work
>> >>>>> they were seeing was actually commercially made decals that the
>> potter
>> >> just
>> >>>>> fired on the pots. What looks like unique glazing is just following
>> >>>>> instructions from the glaze manufacturer on which jarred glazes to
>> >> combine
>> >>>>> for special looks. I once asked on another pottery forum why anyone
>> >> would
>> >>>>> pay $290 for a five gallon bucket of shiny blue “dipping glaze” when
>> >> that
>> >>>>> same bucket could be made with less than $20 in materials. Many,
>> many
>> >>>>> potters today evidently have so much spare money that they have no
>> >> interest
>> >>>>> in learning how to make glazes and will gladly pay $16 for an 8
>> ounce
>> >> jar
>> >>>>> of glaze.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Kathi LeSueur
>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Lis <lis.allison at primus.ca> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Well, I certainly agree with what you wrote, David. What gets me
>> >> these
>> >>>>> days is all the potters switching to underglaze transfers and
>> calling
>> >> their
>> >>>>> work hand made. I had someone come to my booth at a sale and ask me
>> to
>> >> make
>> >>>>> her a large number of a certain item, and to decorate them using the
>> >>>>> underglaze transfer she had purchased. Needless to say, I refused.
>> My
>> >> work
>> >>>>> is made by hand (your definition) and hand painted. If I wanted to
>> >>>>> machine-make pottery, I might as well go work in an office instead.
>> At
>> >>>>> least then I'd make real money.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> www.pine-ridge.ca<http://www.pine-ridge.ca>
>> >>>>> Garden Blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>> >> http://www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
>> >>>>> Pottery Blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>> >> http://www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
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