[Clayart] Handmade

paul gerhold gerholdclay at gmail.com
Mon Aug 8 12:32:44 UTC 2022

Where did I say anything about a 30 minute conversation at an art fair as a personal connection. Perhaps your miss comprehension says more about yourself than me! 


Sent from my iPad

> On Aug 8, 2022, at 7:37 AM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't count even a 30 minute conversation at an art fair as a
> connection.. You must lack lots of real meaningful friendships of you count
> that as a connection.
> I have pots made by people I've known for years. Those are different. Not
> many people who buy pots have that length of friendship with potters.
> But I'm talking about other people whove mentioned have a connection with a
> potter simply because of a fingerprint. That's self delusion brought on by
> a lack of other meaning.
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2022, 13:40 paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Robert,
>> I buy handmade art from artists I know and there is certainly a
>> connection. Some have now passed and I can still look at the work with
>> feelings and remembrances of an artist and friend. I feel sorry for you
>> that you have somehow avoided that connection.
>> Paul
>> Sent from my iPad
>>> On Aug 7, 2022, at 2:32 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> If you want to look at interesting possibilities of 3D printing, you
>> might
>>> be interested in
>>> https://www.instagram.com/hammerlyceramics/
>>> He's using 3D printing (and 4 axis milling) to create surface topology
>> that
>>> would be nearly impossible to do by hand.
>>> And https://www.instagram.com/turn.studio/ uses CAD to create some very
>>> cool stencils on both thrown and molded work. (Including some zeotrope
>>> images).
>>> The fundamental problem is that people (including potters) are ascribing
>> a
>>> quality and emotive, rather than just descriptive, meaning to the word
>>> handmade. Which is just ridiculous. I would far prefer to buy and use
>> some
>>> really well designed and manufactured ceramics than A LOT of the junk
>> I've
>>> seen at "art" fairs.
>>> Of course, I also occasionally take the hyperbolic position that the idea
>>> that we can somehow find more of a connection with an artist who makes
>>> something by hand than with a designer whose stuff is machine-made is
>>> honestly just self-delusion. Our brains certainly may struggle with
>>> perfection.,(Pixar ran into this problem a few years ago. They can
>> actually
>>> make characters look perfectly human, but there was something "off" about
>>> them that gave everyone the creeps, so they deliberately make their
>>> characters more cartoon-y). But in ceramics, micro-flaws and
>> imperfections
>>> can be imitated by machines too (especially by using reactive glazes).
>> And
>>> arguably a good designer can eliminate that feeling of "too perfect",
>>> anyway.
>>> Every tool we use is just a means to an end (or should be).
>>>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2022 at 08:20, paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> Actually I do give a damn and that post was a response to John Rogers. I
>>>> think integrity and honesty in  craft is incredibly important if skills
>> and
>>>> respect for craftsmanship are to be maintained. Maybe time to bring back
>>>> guilds.
>>>> Back in the days when my wife and I did shows it was not uncommon to
>> have
>>>> a potter trying by careful misdirection to pass off molded ware as wheel
>>>> thrown with pieces complete with throwing ridges    and even
>> thumbprints. I
>>>> have nothing against that type of work but I do not appreciate
>> deliberate
>>>> attempts at pretending the creative process was other than what it
>> actually
>>>> was.
>>>> And next we will have 3D printed ceramics which offers amazing creative
>>>> possibilities and which I suspect will make molded ware obsolete.
>>>> Paul
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2022, at 7:41 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Paul,
>>>>> you may be the proverbial kid outside the candy store looking in and
>>>> yelling that "you don't give a damn."
>>>>> But yes, Paul, "you do give a damn" or you wouldn't bother to say that
>>>> 'you don't give a damn.'
>>>>> Taking liberty with the immortal words of the Bard: "perhaps the
>>>> gentleman doth protest too much"
>>>>> Oh Paul, Smile! you know you owe me one!
>>>>> Love,
>>>>> David
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>>>> paul gerhold <gerholdclay at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 6, 2022 12:28 PM
>>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>>>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>>>>> Lots of words to say " I don't give a damn"
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2022, at 7:46 AM, John Rodgers <jrodgers113 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> Very interesting conversation here. But to quote Rhett Butler in Gone
>>>> With
>>>>>> The Wind, I don't give a damn. Took me a  long while to arrive at
>> this.
>>>>>> Fretted  about it a lot, finally arrived at the conclusion "I created
>>>> it,
>>>>>> whatever it took, and if you, the customer, like it, here's my story
>>>> about
>>>>>> its creation. Now buy it, take it home and enjoy it. Nuff said. I have
>>>> quit
>>>>>> fretting myself over the debates that seem to go on forever. I have
>> too
>>>>>> many pots and other things to create instead of  spending my energy
>>>>>> fretting over this. Show your customer your work, whatever it is. Talk
>>>> to
>>>>>> them about it. Tell them about your clay journey. Get inside their
>> head
>>>> a
>>>>>> bit. Then they will be more likely to buy, and they will feel like
>> they
>>>>>> have taken a piece of the artist home with them. Gives them something
>> to
>>>>>> talk about with their friends, neighbors and relatives.
>>>>>> If anyone cares to look, Google for Southern Grace Gallery and check
>> out
>>>>>> my "creations!'
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 8:32 PM <vpitelka at dtccom.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Lis -
>>>>>>> You didn't waste anyone's time, because this is a very important
>>>> subject
>>>>>>> that NEEDS to be brought up again and again.  This group is
>> constantly
>>>>>>> evolving and as Mel said, we have added a lot of new members.  It is
>>>>>>> important for them to be involved in these discussions or to at least
>>>> read
>>>>>>> them.  If I were you, I would print some simple information about
>>>>>>> "handmade" that tactfully advises buyers to seek work that is truly
>>>>>>> handmade in order to support the continuity of handmade fine craft.
>>>>>>> - Vince
>>>>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>>>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>>>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>>>>>> www.vincepitelka.com<http://www.vincepitelka.com>
>>>>>>> https://chathamartistsguild.org/
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>>>> Lis
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, August 5, 2022 2:55 PM
>>>>>>> To: kathi at lesueurclaywork.com; lis at pine-ridge.ca; Clayart
>>>> international
>>>>>>> pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Handmade
>>>>>>> The reason I brought it up, not knowing that it had been answered
>> about
>>>>>>> 2793 times already according to Mel, is that I find myself in a
>>>> situation
>>>>>>> where such a potter was juried in, and is now charging very high
>>>> prices for
>>>>>>> what I consider inferior work. Some customers think it must be better
>>>> than
>>>>>>> mine, after all, it's more expensive. Sort of a double whammy for me!
>>>>>>> Anyway, I guess there is no answer and I'm sorry to waste everyone's
>>>> time.
>>>>>>> Lis
>>>>>>>> On 2022-08-05 3:23 p.m., kathi at lesueurclaywork.com wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is especially a problem at juried art fairs. Even if there is a
>>>>>>> potter on the jury they often have no idea of what is available to
>>>> potters
>>>>>>> today. I was once on a jury where the other jurors were impressed
>> with
>>>> the
>>>>>>> artist’s decorating on pieces. I pointed out that the meticulous
>> brush
>>>> work
>>>>>>> they were seeing was actually commercially made decals that the
>> potter
>>>> just
>>>>>>> fired on the pots. What looks like unique glazing is just following
>>>>>>> instructions from the glaze manufacturer on which jarred glazes to
>>>> combine
>>>>>>> for special looks. I once asked on another pottery forum why anyone
>>>> would
>>>>>>> pay $290 for a five gallon bucket of shiny blue “dipping glaze” when
>>>> that
>>>>>>> same bucket could be made with less than $20 in materials. Many, many
>>>>>>> potters today evidently have so much spare money that they have no
>>>> interest
>>>>>>> in learning how to make glazes and will gladly pay $16 for an 8 ounce
>>>> jar
>>>>>>> of glaze.
>>>>>>>> Kathi LeSueur
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2022, at 11:52 AM, Lis <lis.allison at primus.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Well, I certainly agree with what you wrote, David. What gets me
>>>> these
>>>>>>> days is all the potters switching to underglaze transfers and calling
>>>> their
>>>>>>> work hand made. I had someone come to my booth at a sale and ask me
>> to
>>>> make
>>>>>>> her a large number of a certain item, and to decorate them using the
>>>>>>> underglaze transfer she had purchased. Needless to say, I refused. My
>>>> work
>>>>>>> is made by hand (your definition) and hand painted. If I wanted to
>>>>>>> machine-make pottery, I might as well go work in an office instead.
>> At
>>>>>>> least then I'd make real money.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> www.pine-ridge.ca<http://www.pine-ridge.ca>
>>>>>>> Garden Blog: www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>>>> http://www.garden-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
>>>>>>> Pottery Blog: www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca<
>>>> http://www.studio-on-the-ridge.blogspot.ca>
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