[Clayart] Clayart Digest, Vol 74, Issue 26

Terry Lazaroff terrylazaroff at gmail.com
Wed Jan 12 00:57:15 UTC 2022


Well said Janet;


Everyone finds their way, no two potters are the same.
I have chemicals that I purchased back in 89, when I turned professional.  I am now getting ready to downsize, and I am wondering how I will get rid of them.   I can’t just  throw  them out because they make up my inventory and thus will hurt tax wise.  

 I now use a limited glaze palette.  I am now looking at ordering my glaze pre weighted.  The Pottery Supply House in Oakville, near Toronto, will make up your glazes in any batch size you need.  There is a nominal fee, but it is reasonable.  

So use what you need, and enjoy your creative moves.

Terry
Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 11, 2022, at 6:00 PM, Janet Leatherwood <janet.leatherwood at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Clayart community,
> I've been reading your posts for years now and they are always there when I
> need a lift.  Finally now I'll start adding my 2 cents.
> Home-made vs. commercial glazes.
> I started with a few pints of commercial glaze about 20 years ago.  Working
> full time, 2 small kids, then 4 kids, and those glazes were worth every
> penny.  I had no idea what a glaze could do or even how to fire my manual
> kiln.  But I enjoyed the clay so much and gradually learned more and more
> about the glazes.  Now my garage is full of EPK and FF3134 and
> wollastonite, etc., and my basement is full of buckets of this and that,
> and I still use some of the commercial glazes together with my own.  I
> don't think I have saved money by making my own glazes, but it is a
> wonderful journey.    I'm like the winner of $300, I sell a few pots but my
> clay costs far more than what I bring in.  I imagine the casino winner
> (thanks to her winnings) spent $200 for a wonderful
> vacation/entertainment.  Likewise, making beautiful things brings me great
> joy, and I consider the net cost a good deal indeed.
> 
> Thank you all for posts through the years,
> Janet Leatherwood
> 
>> On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 1:27 PM <clayart-request at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: paul lewing is back (Sharon Wetherby)
>>   2. cost of materials (mel jacobson)
>>   3. Re: cost of materials (kathi at lesueurclaywork.com)
>>   4. Re: cost of materials (Robert Harris)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 21:34:01 -0600
>> From: Sharon Wetherby <wetherby.ss at gmail.com>
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>        <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] paul lewing is back
>> Message-ID:
>>        <
>> CAA+ORv2ydUM5SiSMXV9P0D_Ed++iMmtQtTXtdaeWh7YBrnCBuA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hi, Antoinette,
>> I loved Paul's class. It was just what I needed. My husband has
>> Hungtington's Disease and lately has started to decline. I've bought a
>> bunch of China paints from eBay and can paint away at my kitchen table w/o
>> leaving hubby alone. It's great fun and lifts my spirit. I'll send you some
>> pictures tomorrow if I don't forget.
>> 
>> Cheers for the new year.
>> Sharon
>> 
>> On Mon, Jan 10, 2022 at 11:58 AM Antoinette Badenhorst <
>> porcelainbyantoinette at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Sharon how did you experience his online class?
>>> 
>>> Best wishes,
>>> Antoinette Badenhorst
>>> 
>>> PorcelainByAntoinette
>>> TeachinArt
>>> International Academy of Ceramics
>>> Mississippi Arts Commission
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 10, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Sharon Wetherby <wetherby.ss at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Ditto, Mel.
>>>> Paul's book is text book quality.
>>>> 
>>>> Sharon
>>>> Fort Worth, TX
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 6:04 PM mel jacobson <melpots at mail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> just as a historical note.
>>>>> Paul was given a stipend from the
>>>>> clayart fund to be able to finish
>>>>> his book.  The Museum in Seattle
>>>>> charged him to copy slides from their
>>>>> collection.  highway robbery.
>>>>> but, we got it all worked out.
>>>>> 
>>>>> the book is fantastic.
>>>>> mel
>>>>> 
>>>>> website: www.melpots.com
>>>>> www.melpots.com/CLAYART.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 14:18:16 +0100
>> From: mel jacobson <melpots at mail.com>
>> To: clay art <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: [Clayart] cost of materials
>> Message-ID:
>> 
>> <trinity-052b3d28-5830-430b-b2a8-0dfe7f09d3dd-1641907096756 at 3c-app-mailcom-lxa14
>>> 
>> 
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> I totally agree...a few pounds of lithium would last me
>> ten years.
>> 
>> If you produce your own glazes, re/cycle clay, run a
>> studio that you control....the cost of materials can be very low.
>> In the scheme of things, almost a non-factor. I have glaze materials
>> for at least three more years. I have beans and rice here at the
>> farm for at least two years. I saw 15 deer on the hill last week.
>> hmmm, one would last me a year if i smoked the meat.
>> 
>> My major thought was for those that buy all ready made. A pint of glaze
>> for $35.  My base glazes/  I can make 20 gallons for a few dollars.
>> I have two Walker pug mills.
>> 
>> Just that simple thought is how I was able to have six classes a day
>> making pots..at the top end...180 kids.
>> 
>> Remember the story.  50 gallon garbage can on wheels.  two bags of
>> volcanic ash, two bags of gertsely. add some zircopax and that made
>> 50 gallons of base glaze. cone 4.  at the time it was like 40 bucks.
>> We named the glaze Mount St. Helen's.  (Volcano)
>> 
>> When I left, the new teacher said `that much glaze is silly and hard
>> to make. she bought pint jars.`
>> 
>> If you order 50,000 lbs of clay for your school program, it may not get
>> filled.
>> And that price may triple, if they deliver.  The folks at both Minnesota
>> clay
>> and continental are very worried. What happens if the ball clay mine shuts
>> down.??
>> As was said yesterday..."potters get the left overs."
>> 
>> No one ever tells us what happens to all those huge car batteries. They
>> die you know.
>> And, you pay cash for a new one. 10 grand.??  re/cycle. ???  I think
>> Canada takes them.
>> It is far from Nirvana.    Oh, and there is a plane that runs on a
>> battery. Flies for
>> 8 minutes. The battery is heavier than the plane.  As the joke years back.
>> "We have an
>> electric plane. 85,000 Dollars.  $5000 for the plane, $80,000 for the
>> extension cord.
>> Mel
>> It is like the neighbor, She says she won $300 at the casino last month,
>> She only spent
>> $500 to get it. Simple math you know.
>> 
>> website: www.melpots.com
>> www.melpots.com/CLAYART.HTML
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 09:35:54 -0500
>> From: "kathi at lesueurclaywork.com" <kathi at lesueurclaywork.com>
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>        <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] cost of materials
>> Message-ID: <ED29AD67-CF74-4AF0-ABB6-DF89ED3AF410 at lesueurclaywork.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> I had never realized how much those jars of glaze cost until I was at a
>> local supplier and saw a five gallon bucket of ?dipping? glaze for $290. A
>> shiny cone 6 blue. I came how and calculated what my most expensive glaze
>> is to make. A black with cobalt, manganese, and iron. $22. When I asked on
>> a clay forum why someone would buy that bucket as opposed to making their
>> own I was attacked for asking the question. Others must have a lot more
>> money than me. I just finished my best year ever, by far. Most went in a
>> box from online sales. A studio sale, one art fair, and customers
>> contacting me through my website all contributed. My cost are extremely
>> low. All of my equipment is paid for. And, the cost of clay and glaze is
>> very low. Living in a city that take recycling seriously I spend very
>> little on packing materials. I can get all of the peanuts and bubble that I
>> want free. And, a local manufacturer is thrilled to give me the flat
>> styrofoam that I line my boxes with.  How those people bu
>> ying little jars of glaze and decals can make a profit is a mystery to
>> me.
>> 
>> Kathi LeSueur
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>>> On Jan 11, 2022, at 8:21 AM, mel jacobson <melpots at mail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I totally agree...a few pounds of lithium would last me
>>> ten years.
>>> 
>>> If you produce your own glazes, re/cycle clay, run a
>>> studio that you control....the cost of materials can be very low.
>>> In the scheme of things, almost a non-factor. I have glaze materials
>>> for at least three more years. I have beans and rice here at the
>>> farm for at least two years. I saw 15 deer on the hill last week.
>>> hmmm, one would last me a year if i smoked the meat.
>>> 
>>> My major thought was for those that buy all ready made. A pint of glaze
>>> for $35.  My base glazes/  I can make 20 gallons for a few dollars.
>>> I have two Walker pug mills.
>>> 
>>> Just that simple thought is how I was able to have six classes a day
>>> making pots..at the top end...180 kids.
>>> 
>>> Remember the story.  50 gallon garbage can on wheels.  two bags of
>>> volcanic ash, two bags of gertsely. add some zircopax and that made
>>> 50 gallons of base glaze. cone 4.  at the time it was like 40 bucks.
>>> We named the glaze Mount St. Helen's.  (Volcano)
>>> 
>>> When I left, the new teacher said `that much glaze is silly and hard
>>> to make. she bought pint jars.`
>>> 
>>> If you order 50,000 lbs of clay for your school program, it may not get
>> filled.
>>> And that price may triple, if they deliver.  The folks at both Minnesota
>> clay
>>> and continental are very worried. What happens if the ball clay mine
>> shuts down.??
>>> As was said yesterday..."potters get the left overs."
>>> 
>>> No one ever tells us what happens to all those huge car batteries. They
>> die you know.
>>> And, you pay cash for a new one. 10 grand.??  re/cycle. ???  I think
>> Canada takes them.
>>> It is far from Nirvana.    Oh, and there is a plane that runs on a
>> battery. Flies for
>>> 8 minutes. The battery is heavier than the plane.  As the joke years
>> back. "We have an
>>> electric plane. 85,000 Dollars.  $5000 for the plane, $80,000 for the
>> extension cord.
>>> Mel
>>> It is like the neighbor, She says she won $300 at the casino last month,
>> She only spent
>>> $500 to get it. Simple math you know.
>>> 
>>> website: www.melpots.com
>>> www.melpots.com/CLAYART.HTML
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2022 10:52:09 -0700
>> From: Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com>
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>        <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] cost of materials
>> Message-ID:
>>        <
>> CAL12t+gA8w85OJLPVTEHsdMo_D7JahFLXX3krzwoXLKJxy8b3A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I don't think people buying pints of glaze are trying to make a living, or
>> a profit, anyway. What they're far more interested in is bulletproof!
>> 
>> The local rec centers here charge between $20 and $40 for a class, often
>> taught by a 20 something with close to zero experience, but who is cheap,
>> cheap, cheap (the one center with $45 classes is taught by people who
>> really know what they're doing and they make their own glazes).
>> The rec centers use the ready made glazes because the people teaching the
>> class don't have any experience themselves.
>> 
>> It's the old story, pay peanuts and you get monkeys.
>> 
>> Not to mention that in most rec centers they don't teach you anything
>> besides making a pot and slapping a glaze on it. Nothing about firing,
>> nothing about troubleshooting bad glazes or bad firings, not even how to
>> mix up glazes.
>> 
>> WHen you look at the cost of classes, those expensive glazes are cheap. And
>> to be fair to Amaco and Coyote, some of them are really pretty nice and
>> they can take a lot of abuse (i.e. large firing range, thickness is less
>> critical etc.). And with the lack of expertise at rec centres someone in
>> that situation probably doesn't have much of a clue where to start. And if
>> you only have a few hours a day or a week to work on something that is a
>> hobby, then Amaco glazes are probably worth the price.
>> 
>> (And there are plenty of people on this list who have posted about how even
>> many colleges have degraded the craftsmanship and technical knowledge
>> portion of ceramics in favour of pushing artistic boundaries).
>> 
>> Are there people selling pots with expensive purchased glazes? Absolutely.
>> But they're probably not trying to make a living.
>> 
>> There are lots and lots of downsides to making your own glazes.
>> 
>> 1. The really bulletproof homemade glazes are pretty boring. Things like
>> floating blues take a while to get the hang of.
>> 2. Even a fairly modest glaze kitchen takes a fair bit of storage space. A
>> hobbyist in a small garage (let alone in a city where space is precious) is
>> already feeling pretty cramped with a wheel and kiln and table (or two).
>> Add in a few glaze buckets, then where do you put those bags of Custer, and
>> silica and whiting and Gerstley, oh and this glaze calls for dolomite, and
>> this one needs NephSy ...
>> 3. And when you're just starting out, who wants to fire a kiln just for
>> tests. And we all know that if you make up an untested glaze and put it on
>> your precious pots, it's NEVER going to end well! So where do you start
>> ...?
>> 
>> Considering the difficulties inherent in glazing, we should be a lot more
>> understanding of the difficulties rather than just sitting in snobby
>> judgement of people using easy, bulletproof commercial glazes.
>> If you look at the archives, when this list was truly active there was
>> probably a request every 3-6 months for a truly clear, craze free glaze.
>> And of course that's going to depend massviley on the clay body. And we all
>> know that "Cone 6-10" bodies (clay companies should be burned at the stake
>> for that one!) don't really vitrify very well at Cone 6 ... which leads to
>> crazing problems. Honestly when you think about it, it's absolutely amazing
>> that anyone that comes from a rec center, or a dumbed down college class,
>> gets started at all!
>> 
>> (Please note: I have a tendency to make gross generalisations and use
>> plenty of hyperbole to make a point. I'm sure YOUR local rec center is a
>> paragon of virtue ;) )
>> 
>> Robert
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2022 at 08:22, kathi at lesueurclaywork.com <
>> kathi at lesueurclaywork.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I had never realized how much those jars of glaze cost until I was at a
>>> local supplier and saw a five gallon bucket of ?dipping? glaze for $290.
>> A
>>> shiny cone 6 blue. I came how and calculated what my most expensive glaze
>>> is to make. A black with cobalt, manganese, and iron. $22. When I asked
>> on
>>> a clay forum why someone would buy that bucket as opposed to making their
>>> own I was attacked for asking the question. Others must have a lot more
>>> money than me. I just finished my best year ever, by far. Most went in a
>>> box from online sales. A studio sale, one art fair, and customers
>>> contacting me through my website all contributed. My cost are extremely
>>> low. All of my equipment is paid for. And, the cost of clay and glaze is
>>> very low. Living in a city that take recycling seriously I spend very
>>> little on packing materials. I can get all of the peanuts and bubble
>> that I
>>> want free. And, a local manufacturer is thrilled to give me the flat
>>> styrofoam that I line my boxes with.  How those people buying little jars
>>> of glaze and decals can make a profit is a mystery to me.
>>> 
>>> Kathi LeSueur
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 11, 2022, at 8:21 AM, mel jacobson <melpots at mail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I totally agree...a few pounds of lithium would last me
>>>> ten years.
>>>> 
>>>> If you produce your own glazes, re/cycle clay, run a
>>>> studio that you control....the cost of materials can be very low.
>>>> In the scheme of things, almost a non-factor. I have glaze materials
>>>> for at least three more years. I have beans and rice here at the
>>>> farm for at least two years. I saw 15 deer on the hill last week.
>>>> hmmm, one would last me a year if i smoked the meat.
>>>> 
>>>> My major thought was for those that buy all ready made. A pint of glaze
>>>> for $35.  My base glazes/  I can make 20 gallons for a few dollars.
>>>> I have two Walker pug mills.
>>>> 
>>>> Just that simple thought is how I was able to have six classes a day
>>>> making pots..at the top end...180 kids.
>>>> 
>>>> Remember the story.  50 gallon garbage can on wheels.  two bags of
>>>> volcanic ash, two bags of gertsely. add some zircopax and that made
>>>> 50 gallons of base glaze. cone 4.  at the time it was like 40 bucks.
>>>> We named the glaze Mount St. Helen's.  (Volcano)
>>>> 
>>>> When I left, the new teacher said `that much glaze is silly and hard
>>>> to make. she bought pint jars.`
>>>> 
>>>> If you order 50,000 lbs of clay for your school program, it may not get
>>> filled.
>>>> And that price may triple, if they deliver.  The folks at both
>> Minnesota
>>> clay
>>>> and continental are very worried. What happens if the ball clay mine
>>> shuts down.??
>>>> As was said yesterday..."potters get the left overs."
>>>> 
>>>> No one ever tells us what happens to all those huge car batteries. They
>>> die you know.
>>>> And, you pay cash for a new one. 10 grand.??  re/cycle. ???  I think
>>> Canada takes them.
>>>> It is far from Nirvana.    Oh, and there is a plane that runs on a
>>> battery. Flies for
>>>> 8 minutes. The battery is heavier than the plane.  As the joke years
>>> back. "We have an
>>>> electric plane. 85,000 Dollars.  $5000 for the plane, $80,000 for the
>>> extension cord.
>>>> Mel
>>>> It is like the neighbor, She says she won $300 at the casino last
>> month,
>>> She only spent
>>>> $500 to get it. Simple math you know.
>>>> 
>>>> website: www.melpots.com
>>>> www.melpots.com/CLAYART.HTML
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> End of Clayart Digest, Vol 74, Issue 26
>> ***************************************
>> 
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