[Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"

paul gerhold gerholdclay at gmail.com
Mon Jan 17 01:02:44 UTC 2022


There are the lead fish and the follower fish! True in art as well as every other human endeavor. 

Paul 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Herd instinct and going with the flow of your tribe/culture/people has an
> awful lot of evolutionary advantages.
> 
> To me, in order to understand the why of pretty much any human behavior, we
> need to look at the advantages to our historic selves.
> 
> Maybe then we wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any behavior we see as
> "lesser".
> 
> And don't fool yourself into thinking artists and potters are any
> different. Impressionism, Art Nouveau, Deco, Dada, Pop Art, Expressionism,
> all these were "bold and new" but really the Zeitgeist of one time or
> another, and all are examples of the school of fish all darting in the same
> direction.
> 
>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:41, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David:
>> You know in law there is “McNaughtens rule of Right and Wrong.” It is
>> assumed the accused is sane and therefore not excused from their act. Yet
>> every oppressive civilization in history has had the herd (read mob)
>> instinct. Except George Ohr the Mad Potter of Biloxi, he may have been mad,
>> but he was a good salesman.
>> I think this satisfies the clay issue.
>> Rob Hackert
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:49 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> HI Cousins Vincenzo and Pauly...... Coud'ja agree to stay on topic
>> instead of rambling off when something apparently makes your knees jerk?
>>> 
>>> Though I'm quite sure you will agree that a pinnacle is a very dangerous
>> place to be standing.
>>> 
>>> In the exuberant confidence of acquiring an imagined view with 360
>> degrees of vantage,  perhaps one fails to notice there is also 360 degrees
>> of Slippery Slope.
>>> 
>>> When "WE" arrive at such a self-imagined pinnacle of intellectual
>> reasoning there is nowhere else to go and nothing more to learn.
>>> 
>>> Just sayin..... "WE" must never imagine "WE" have arrived...............
>>> 
>>> Because I needed to teach pottery skills to a number of blind students,
>> to assist their learning, I needed to "Blind Myself" and produce good
>> strong forms.   And then not peek cheat, but ask other accomplished potters
>> to describe and critique my forms.
>>> Then with this confidence, after asking permission, I took the blind
>> student's hands in mine while guiding and describing by the sense of touch
>> the sensory "feeling" of the techniques.
>>> 
>>> Since we all must feel the clay move as opposed to attempting to throw
>> by sight, facilitating the learning to center while blind is a short cut to
>> learning to press the clay against that "real" but invisible central axis
>> that extends upward from the wheel head center to infinity.  (Imagining
>> until it becomes palpable.)
>>> 
>>> Advanced Martial artists and other folks who are "in their Body" also
>> know that their body has a central axis that also extends downward to
>> infinity. To be "Rooted" immovably in space and place one moment, and a
>> nano second later becoming a "sheet in the wind."
>>> 
>>> Love,
>>> 
>>> Woof.......................
>>> 
>> ************************************************************************************************
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>> vpitelka at dtccom.net <vpitelka at dtccom.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:35 PM
>>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum' <
>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>> 
>>> Agreed, 100%.  People need to take responsibility for their own actions,
>> and do whatever they can to sew harmony and cooperation, regardless of
>> race, sex, ethnicity, or religion.  Anyone who condemns masses of other
>> humans on the basis of any of those criteria simply points out the
>> shortcomings in themselves.
>>> 
>>> Peace and love to all,
>>> - Vince
>>> 
>>> Vince Pitelka
>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchathamartistsguild.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OOF%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>> paul gerhold
>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 12:59 PM
>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>> 
>>> Believing in a powerful higher more intelligent source than "WE"
>> ourselves is proof that one hasn't gotten to a higher spiritual plane but
>> has only achieved a greater ability to disavow personal responsibility for
>> one's actions and one's destiny.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Vince,
>>>> I took your logical conclusion re. "Fools" and noticed it could go one
>> step further.
>>>> 
>>>> I think Hegel was writing in the collective sense that the masses learn
>> nothing from history, not because there is nothing to learn, but because
>> most people are swept along in their pursuits of selfish sensual
>> gratifications.
>>>> Perhaps this is what you were getting at also.
>>>> 
>>>> It takes more energy and thought to rise to the spiritual plane where
>> one can meditate on these lessons of repeated history.    And come to
>> realize a futility when attempting to effect lasting change in a world
>> society where "WE"  delusionally believe that "WE" are in control and must
>> become the driver for change.
>>>> 
>>>> So this futile pursuit, as fools, includes us all unless we as
>> individuals, realize humans can't get off the tread mill to change the
>> repeated course of history, and so must turn to a powerful higher more
>> intelligent source than "WE'"ourselves.
>>>> 
>>>> Since "WE" have so long labored under the delusion that we were in
>> control it will be impossible for the majority to surrender, and who will
>> no doubt doggedly press on until the curtain falls on the spectacular mess
>> "They" continue to make.
>>>> 
>>>> What will you do?...... What will I do?
>>>> 
>>>> OOPs we almost didn't post something about clay or ceramic glazes in
>> this exchange!!!  How's your Pots?
>>>> 
>>>> Love,
>>>> Woof................Lector, si monumentum requiris,
>> Circumspice..........................................................................................
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>> ***********************************
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net <vpitelka at dtccom.net>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:03 PM
>>>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum'
>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>> 
>>>> Hi David - The logical conclusion is that either Georg Hegel was a
>> fool, or we are.
>>>> - Vince
>>>> 
>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchathamartistsguild.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OOF%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>>>> David Lyons
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:43 PM
>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>> 
>>>> The German philosopher Georg Hegel famously said, “The only thing that
>> we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.”
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2022, at 5:32 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Quote of the hour: < “Those who cannot remember the past are
>>>>> condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.
>>>>> From the series Great Ideas of Western Man.">
>>>>> 
>>>>> MY My Oh My!!! One has only to look slightly beyond one's own hand to
>> see where "The Great Ideas of Western Man" has gotten us in 300 years.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example: " Great Ideas of Eastern Man"....Asian people compounded
>> finely ground charcoal with forms of​ nitrates and used the resulting
>> substance for peaceful but exciting fireworks displays featured in their
>> celebrations.  Western Man said: "HEY I could kill people with this F------
>> Shit."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am I taking sides, or upset about this?  No! I'm a neutral observer,
>> not a participant.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But to survive what is coming down the pipe, those of us who will,
>> need to let reality open our minds and hearts to the truth.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My Truth for the moment: I have pots to make, and my muse is humming
>> some weird song while grinding up something that appears to be
>> charcoal......Tonite she "is Asian."
>>>>> Before the night is over, I really hope she remembers that she is!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Love to all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Woof..............​reverently taking an irreverent look at
>> everything.......
>>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>>> *
>>>>> ********************
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>>>>> David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:14 PM
>>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Wayne.
>>>>> Don't give in so easily to Cousin Vinnie.
>>>>> You fellows have no case for argument or apologies because there is
>> this "strange little Compendium of historical and prophetic books," that go
>> back more than several thousand years, carrying clear warnings that if one
>> ignores history, one will suffer the consequences of a repeat.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I say "strange" because this "book," while so accurate in its internal
>> detail, is widely criticized. ignored, often misquoted, or quoted when a
>> particular isolated passage seems, on cursory reading, to support a
>> preconceived and preferred personal belief or agenda.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Love you both,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Woof.....a serious student of ancient, and modern history which is so
>> clearly following the ancient patterns.
>>>>> *********************************************************************
>>>>> *
>>>>> ******************************************
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of W
>>>>> Seidl <wjsmaine at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 11:06 AM
>>>>> To: clayart at lists.clayartworld.com <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Oops.  You're right.  Sorry...
>>>>> 
>>>>> W
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 1/7/2022 9:49 AM, vpitelka at dtccom.net wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Wayne -
>>>>>> Always good to hear your "voice" on Clayart.  But a small correction:
>>>>>> “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” –
>> George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. From the series Great Ideas of
>> Western Man.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.clayartworld.com%2Fpipermail%2Fclayart%2Fattachments%2F2022010&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KLoiOaU0DOXIj8j1nB9zn3HE2M1B%2Bw5vVeAF77f2OJY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> 7
>>>>> /5e6f44f6/attachment.htm>
>>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>>> scrubbed...
>>>>> URL:
>>>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.clayartworld.com%2Fpipermail%2Fclayart%2Fattachments%2F2022010&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KLoiOaU0DOXIj8j1nB9zn3HE2M1B%2Bw5vVeAF77f2OJY%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> 8
>>>>> /2ae58dc5/attachment.htm>
>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>> scrubbed...
>>>> URL:
>>>> <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.clayartworld.com%2Fpipermail%2Fclayart%2Fattachments%2F20220108&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=SgDHueHicVzK9ME41%2FkvJkeGEtML3SiVqbJfYmSEp5s%3D&reserved=0
>>>> /af032d6b/attachment.htm>
>>>> 
>>>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>>>> scrubbed...
>>>> URL: <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.clayartworld.com%2Fpipermail%2Fclayart%2Fattachments%2F20220114%2F039e0df4%2Fattachment.htm&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=DG2rPTuBOuY0puecpV91TPrsftboZNEUOm2SfDfWKUg%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------------- next part --------------
>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>> URL: <
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.clayartworld.com%2Fpipermail%2Fclayart%2Fattachments%2F20220116%2F2516a6f9%2Fattachment.htm&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Smv%2BGe7L6lqxpH2HY79hWc4HwsZfnStWrbLgmm1Z%2Ffo%3D&reserved=0
>>> 
>> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <https://lists.clayartworld.com/pipermail/clayart/attachments/20220116/c012e941/attachment.htm>


More information about the Clayart mailing list