[Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"

Terry Lazaroff terrylazaroff at gmail.com
Mon Jan 17 17:27:53 UTC 2022


Well said, Vince.    

Terry, living the life in the middle of a blizzard.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 17, 2022, at 12:20 PM, vpitelka at dtccom.net wrote:
> 
> When I was teaching art history and art appreciation, and in my clay classes as well, I called this the leapfrogging of artistic styles. The young and innovative get tired of the established trends, so they experiment and invent.  Sometimes the things they do really catch on and it becomes a new "school" or style.  But with time it becomes ordinary and even old-fashioned, and then the young and innovative get tired of it and they experiment and invent.  Again and again.  And one of the most fascinating things about this is that those young and innovative artists who come up with a new "school" or style of art and become celebrated when their original work catches on often end up very conservative and resistant to change as they grow older.  They don't want to see their innovations replaced or overshadowed by something new.  And of course, the same thing happens in almost every field.  It is the rare and special artist who retains the inventive spirit into old age, still seeking innovation and change.
> - Vince
> 
> Vince Pitelka
> Potter, Writer, Teacher
> Chapel Hill, NC
> vpitelka at dtccom.net
> www.vincepitelka.com 
> https://chathamartistsguild.org/ 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of paul gerhold
> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2022 8:03 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
> 
> There are the lead fish and the follower fish! True in art as well as every other human endeavor. 
> 
> Paul 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jan 16, 2022, at 6:10 PM, Robert Harris <robertgharris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Herd instinct and going with the flow of your tribe/culture/people 
>> has an awful lot of evolutionary advantages.
>> 
>> To me, in order to understand the why of pretty much any human 
>> behavior, we need to look at the advantages to our historic selves.
>> 
>> Maybe then we wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any behavior we see as 
>> "lesser".
>> 
>> And don't fool yourself into thinking artists and potters are any 
>> different. Impressionism, Art Nouveau, Deco, Dada, Pop Art, 
>> Expressionism, all these were "bold and new" but really the Zeitgeist 
>> of one time or another, and all are examples of the school of fish all 
>> darting in the same direction.
>> 
>>>> On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:41, robert hackert <ndiaman at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi David:
>>> You know in law there is “McNaughtens rule of Right and Wrong.” It is 
>>> assumed the accused is sane and therefore not excused from their act. 
>>> Yet every oppressive civilization in history has had the herd (read 
>>> mob) instinct. Except George Ohr the Mad Potter of Biloxi, he may 
>>> have been mad, but he was a good salesman.
>>> I think this satisfies the clay issue.
>>> Rob Hackert
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:49 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> HI Cousins Vincenzo and Pauly...... Coud'ja agree to stay on topic
>>> instead of rambling off when something apparently makes your knees jerk?
>>>> 
>>>> Though I'm quite sure you will agree that a pinnacle is a very 
>>>> dangerous
>>> place to be standing.
>>>> 
>>>> In the exuberant confidence of acquiring an imagined view with 360
>>> degrees of vantage,  perhaps one fails to notice there is also 360 
>>> degrees of Slippery Slope.
>>>> 
>>>> When "WE" arrive at such a self-imagined pinnacle of intellectual
>>> reasoning there is nowhere else to go and nothing more to learn.
>>>> 
>>>> Just sayin..... "WE" must never imagine "WE" have arrived...............
>>>> 
>>>> Because I needed to teach pottery skills to a number of blind 
>>>> students,
>>> to assist their learning, I needed to "Blind Myself" and produce good
>>> strong forms.   And then not peek cheat, but ask other accomplished potters
>>> to describe and critique my forms.
>>>> Then with this confidence, after asking permission, I took the blind
>>> student's hands in mine while guiding and describing by the sense of 
>>> touch the sensory "feeling" of the techniques.
>>>> 
>>>> Since we all must feel the clay move as opposed to attempting to 
>>>> throw
>>> by sight, facilitating the learning to center while blind is a short 
>>> cut to learning to press the clay against that "real" but invisible 
>>> central axis that extends upward from the wheel head center to 
>>> infinity.  (Imagining until it becomes palpable.)
>>>> 
>>>> Advanced Martial artists and other folks who are "in their Body" 
>>>> also
>>> know that their body has a central axis that also extends downward to 
>>> infinity. To be "Rooted" immovably in space and place one moment, and 
>>> a nano second later becoming a "sheet in the wind."
>>>> 
>>>> Love,
>>>> 
>>>> Woof.......................
>>>> 
>>> *********************************************************************
>>> ***************************
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net <vpitelka at dtccom.net>
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:35 PM
>>>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum' <
>>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>> 
>>>> Agreed, 100%.  People need to take responsibility for their own 
>>>> actions,
>>> and do whatever they can to sew harmony and cooperation, regardless 
>>> of race, sex, ethnicity, or religion.  Anyone who condemns masses of 
>>> other humans on the basis of any of those criteria simply points out 
>>> the shortcomings in themselves.
>>>> 
>>>> Peace and love to all,
>>>> - Vince
>>>> 
>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybz
>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybz
>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchat
>>> hamartistsguild.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9
>>> d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587
>>> 144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
>>> iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OO
>>> F%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&reserved=0
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>>> paul gerhold
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 12:59 PM
>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <
>>> clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>> 
>>>> Believing in a powerful higher more intelligent source than "WE"
>>> ourselves is proof that one hasn't gotten to a higher spiritual plane 
>>> but has only achieved a greater ability to disavow personal 
>>> responsibility for one's actions and one's destiny.
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Vince,
>>>>> I took your logical conclusion re. "Fools" and noticed it could go 
>>>>> one
>>> step further.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think Hegel was writing in the collective sense that the masses 
>>>>> learn
>>> nothing from history, not because there is nothing to learn, but 
>>> because most people are swept along in their pursuits of selfish 
>>> sensual gratifications.
>>>>> Perhaps this is what you were getting at also.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It takes more energy and thought to rise to the spiritual plane 
>>>>> where
>>> one can meditate on these lessons of repeated history.    And come to
>>> realize a futility when attempting to effect lasting change in a 
>>> world society where "WE"  delusionally believe that "WE" are in 
>>> control and must become the driver for change.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So this futile pursuit, as fools, includes us all unless we as
>>> individuals, realize humans can't get off the tread mill to change 
>>> the repeated course of history, and so must turn to a powerful higher 
>>> more intelligent source than "WE'"ourselves.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since "WE" have so long labored under the delusion that we were in
>>> control it will be impossible for the majority to surrender, and who 
>>> will no doubt doggedly press on until the curtain falls on the 
>>> spectacular mess "They" continue to make.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What will you do?...... What will I do?
>>>>> 
>>>>> OOPs we almost didn't post something about clay or ceramic glazes 
>>>>> in
>>> this exchange!!!  How's your Pots?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Love,
>>>>> Woof................Lector, si monumentum requiris,
>>> Circumspice..........................................................................................
>>>>> *******************************************************************
>>>>> ***
>>>>> ***********************************
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of 
>>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net <vpitelka at dtccom.net>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:03 PM
>>>>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum'
>>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi David - The logical conclusion is that either Georg Hegel was a
>>> fool, or we are.
>>>>> - Vince
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vince Pitelka
>>>>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>>>>> Chapel Hill, NC
>>>>> vpitelka at dtccom.net
>>>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybz
>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
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>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybz
>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>> <
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.v
>>> incepitelka.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8ee
>>> ac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%
>>> 7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6I
>>> k1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybz
>>> tkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchat
>>> hamartistsguild.org%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9
>>> d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587
>>> 144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT
>>> iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OO
>>> F%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&reserved=0
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of 
>>>>> David Lyons
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:43 PM
>>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum 
>>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS:
>>> "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>>>> 
>>>>> The German philosopher Georg Hegel famously said, “The only thing 
>>>>> that
>>> we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.”
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2022, at 5:32 AM, David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Quote of the hour: < “Those who cannot remember the past are 
>>>>>> condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.
>>>>>> From the series Great Ideas of Western Man.">
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> MY My Oh My!!! One has only to look slightly beyond one's own hand 
>>>>>> to
>>> see where "The Great Ideas of Western Man" has gotten us in 300 years.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Example: " Great Ideas of Eastern Man"....Asian people compounded
>>> finely ground charcoal with forms of​ nitrates and used the resulting 
>>> substance for peaceful but exciting fireworks displays featured in 
>>> their celebrations.  Western Man said: "HEY I could kill people with 
>>> this F------ Shit."
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am I taking sides, or upset about this?  No! I'm a neutral 
>>>>>> observer,
>>> not a participant.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But to survive what is coming down the pipe, those of us who will,
>>> need to let reality open our minds and hearts to the truth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> My Truth for the moment: I have pots to make, and my muse is 
>>>>>> humming
>>> some weird song while grinding up something that appears to be 
>>> charcoal......Tonite she "is Asian."
>>>>>> Before the night is over, I really hope she remembers that she is!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Love to all,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Woof..............​reverently taking an irreverent look at
>>> everything.......
>>>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>>>> ***
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> ********************
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf 
>>>>>> of David Woof <woofpots at hotmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:14 PM
>>>>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum 
>>>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Wayne.
>>>>>> Don't give in so easily to Cousin Vinnie.
>>>>>> You fellows have no case for argument or apologies because there 
>>>>>> is
>>> this "strange little Compendium of historical and prophetic books," 
>>> that go back more than several thousand years, carrying clear 
>>> warnings that if one ignores history, one will suffer the consequences of a repeat.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I say "strange" because this "book," while so accurate in its 
>>>>>> internal
>>> detail, is widely criticized. ignored, often misquoted, or quoted 
>>> when a particular isolated passage seems, on cursory reading, to 
>>> support a preconceived and preferred personal belief or agenda.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Love you both,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Woof.....a serious student of ancient, and modern history which is 
>>>>>> so
>>> clearly following the ancient patterns.
>>>>>> ******************************************************************
>>>>>> ***
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> ******************************************
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces at lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf 
>>>>>> of W Seidl <wjsmaine at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 11:06 AM
>>>>>> To: clayart at lists.clayartworld.com 
>>>>>> <clayart at lists.clayartworld.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Oops.  You're right.  Sorry...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> W
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1/7/2022 9:49 AM, vpitelka at dtccom.net wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Wayne -
>>>>>>> Always good to hear your "voice" on Clayart.  But a small correction:
>>>>>>> “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” 
>>>>>>>>>> George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. From the series Great 
>>> Ideas of Western Man.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Vince Pitelka
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