Herd instinct and going with the flow of your tribe/culture/people has an awful lot of evolutionary advantages.

To me, in order to understand the why of pretty much any human behavior, we need to look at the advantages to our historic selves.

Maybe then we wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any behavior we see as "lesser".

And don't fool yourself into thinking artists and potters are any different. Impressionism, Art Nouveau, Deco, Dada, Pop Art, Expressionism, all these were "bold and new" but really the Zeitgeist of one time or another, and all are examples of the school of fish all darting in the same direction.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 at 08:41, robert hackert <ndiaman@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi David:
You know in law there is “McNaughtens rule of Right and Wrong.” It is assumed the accused is sane and therefore not excused from their act. Yet every oppressive civilization in history has had the herd (read mob) instinct. Except George Ohr the Mad Potter of Biloxi, he may have been mad, but he was a good salesman.
I think this satisfies the clay issue.
Rob Hackert

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2022, at 7:49 AM, David Woof <woofpots@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> HI Cousins Vincenzo and Pauly...... Coud'ja agree to stay on topic instead of rambling off when something apparently makes your knees jerk?
>
> Though I'm quite sure you will agree that a pinnacle is a very dangerous place to be standing.
>
> In the exuberant confidence of acquiring an imagined view with 360 degrees of vantage,  perhaps one fails to notice there is also 360 degrees of Slippery Slope.
>
> When "WE" arrive at such a self-imagined pinnacle of intellectual reasoning there is nowhere else to go and nothing more to learn.
>
> Just sayin..... "WE" must never imagine "WE" have arrived...............
>
> Because I needed to teach pottery skills to a number of blind students, to assist their learning, I needed to "Blind Myself" and produce good strong forms.   And then not peek cheat, but ask other accomplished potters to describe and critique my forms.
> Then with this confidence, after asking permission, I took the blind student's hands in mine while guiding and describing by the sense of touch the sensory "feeling" of the techniques.
>
> Since we all must feel the clay move as opposed to attempting to throw by sight, facilitating the learning to center while blind is a short cut to learning to press the clay against that "real" but invisible central axis that extends upward from the wheel head center to infinity.  (Imagining until it becomes palpable.)
>
> Advanced Martial artists and other folks who are "in their Body" also know that their body has a central axis that also extends downward to infinity. To be "Rooted" immovably in space and place one moment, and a nano second later becoming a "sheet in the wind."
>
> Love,
>
> Woof.......................
> ************************************************************************************************
> ________________________________
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of vpitelka@dtccom.net <vpitelka@dtccom.net>
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 3:35 PM
> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum' <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>
> Agreed, 100%.  People need to take responsibility for their own actions, and do whatever they can to sew harmony and cooperation, regardless of race, sex, ethnicity, or religion.  Anyone who condemns masses of other humans on the basis of any of those criteria simply points out the shortcomings in themselves.
>
> Peace and love to all,
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Potter, Writer, Teacher
> Chapel Hill, NC
> vpitelka@dtccom.net
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchathamartistsguild.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OOF%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of paul gerhold
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 12:59 PM
> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>
> Believing in a powerful higher more intelligent source than "WE" ourselves is proof that one hasn't gotten to a higher spiritual plane but has only achieved a greater ability to disavow personal responsibility for one's actions and one's destiny.
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Jan 14, 2022, at 6:56 AM, David Woof <woofpots@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Vince,
>> I took your logical conclusion re. "Fools" and noticed it could go one step further.
>>
>> I think Hegel was writing in the collective sense that the masses learn nothing from history, not because there is nothing to learn, but because most people are swept along in their pursuits of selfish sensual gratifications.
>> Perhaps this is what you were getting at also.
>>
>> It takes more energy and thought to rise to the spiritual plane where one can meditate on these lessons of repeated history.    And come to realize a futility when attempting to effect lasting change in a world society where "WE"  delusionally believe that "WE" are in control and must become the driver for change.
>>
>> So this futile pursuit, as fools, includes us all unless we as individuals, realize humans can't get off the tread mill to change the repeated course of history, and so must turn to a powerful higher more intelligent source than "WE'"ourselves.
>>
>> Since "WE" have so long labored under the delusion that we were in control it will be impossible for the majority to surrender, and who will no doubt doggedly press on until the curtain falls on the spectacular mess "They" continue to make.
>>
>> What will you do?...... What will I do?
>>
>> OOPs we almost didn't post something about clay or ceramic glazes in this exchange!!!  How's your Pots?
>>
>> Love,
>> Woof................Lector, si monumentum requiris, Circumspice..........................................................................................
>> **********************************************************************
>> ***********************************
>> ________________________________
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net <vpitelka@dtccom.net>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:03 PM
>> To: 'Clayart international pottery discussion forum'
>> <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>
>> Hi David - The logical conclusion is that either Georg Hegel was a fool, or we are.
>> - Vince
>>
>> Vince Pitelka
>> Potter, Writer, Teacher
>> Chapel Hill, NC
>> vpitelka@dtccom.net
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0><https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vincepitelka.com%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=idJXeXvqSrzeWweprs09pg%2BwFybztkX52nomw1C6Dmc%3D&amp;reserved=0>>
>> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fchathamartistsguild.org%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C0b1c3921322d4b7bb2a908d9d8eeac02%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637779341862587144%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=qmfX7mOzpri85EBfD5WDOLR1OOF%2B5vXdYNkEBRojVFA%3D&amp;reserved=0
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> On Behalf Of
>> David Lyons
>> Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:43 PM
>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>> <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] NOW: "Great Ideas of Western Man".....WAS: "Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city"
>>
>> The German philosopher Georg Hegel famously said, “The only thing that we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.”
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Jan 8, 2022, at 5:32 AM, David Woof <woofpots@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Quote of the hour: < “Those who cannot remember the past are
>>> condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.
>>> From the series Great Ideas of Western Man.">
>>>
>>> MY My Oh My!!! One has only to look slightly beyond one's own hand to see where "The Great Ideas of Western Man" has gotten us in 300 years.
>>>
>>> Example: " Great Ideas of Eastern Man"....Asian people compounded finely ground charcoal with forms of​ nitrates and used the resulting substance for peaceful but exciting fireworks displays featured in their celebrations.  Western Man said: "HEY I could kill people with this F------ Shit."
>>>
>>> Am I taking sides, or upset about this?  No! I'm a neutral observer, not a participant.
>>>
>>> But to survive what is coming down the pipe, those of us who will, need to let reality open our minds and hearts to the truth.
>>>
>>> My Truth for the moment: I have pots to make, and my muse is humming some weird song while grinding up something that appears to be charcoal......Tonite she "is Asian."
>>> Before the night is over, I really hope she remembers that she is!
>>>
>>> Love to all,
>>>
>>> Woof..............​reverently taking an irreverent look at everything.......
>>> *********************************************************************
>>> *
>>> ********************
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of
>>> David Woof <woofpots@hotmail.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 3:14 PM
>>> To: Clayart international pottery discussion forum
>>> <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>
>>> Hi Wayne.
>>> Don't give in so easily to Cousin Vinnie.
>>> You fellows have no case for argument or apologies because there is this "strange little Compendium of historical and prophetic books," that go back more than several thousand years, carrying clear warnings that if one ignores history, one will suffer the consequences of a repeat.
>>>
>>> I say "strange" because this "book," while so accurate in its internal detail, is widely criticized. ignored, often misquoted, or quoted when a particular isolated passage seems, on cursory reading, to support a preconceived and preferred personal belief or agenda.
>>>
>>> Love you both,
>>>
>>> Woof.....a serious student of ancient, and modern history which is so clearly following the ancient patterns.
>>> *********************************************************************
>>> *
>>> ******************************************
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Clayart <clayart-bounces@lists.clayartworld.com> on behalf of W
>>> Seidl <wjsmaine@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 11:06 AM
>>> To: clayart@lists.clayartworld.com <clayart@lists.clayartworld.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Clayart] Minneapolis has turned into a night mare city.
>>>
>>> Oops.  You're right.  Sorry...
>>>
>>> W
>>>
>>>>> On 1/7/2022 9:49 AM, vpitelka@dtccom.net wrote:
>>>> Hi Wayne -
>>>> Always good to hear your "voice" on Clayart.  But a small correction:
>>>> “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905. From the series Great Ideas of Western Man.
>>>>
>>>> Vince Pitelka
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